Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Bruce Billson interview with Jac Underwood.

Radio 2BS Bathurst

Subject: Small business owners getting older

Jac Underwood

It is a huge honour to welcome to the program the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman. Bruce Billson, good afternoon.

Bruce Billson

Jac, you’re just saying that to be nice, but it is a treat to be with you and your audience. How are you?

Jac Underwood

Really, really well. Good to be speaking to you. And you’re keeping well?

Bruce Billson

I am keeping out of mischief. I’ve been busily training the cattle dogs, my two cavoodles who haven’t quite taken to it yet, but we’ll keep at it.

Jac Underwood

I think you might have some work cut out for you. You’re from the regions aren’t you. Didn’t you grow up on a farm?

Bruce Billson

Oh, no. I was born in Albury and we had a little place as a family down Gippsland way running some Herefords. But right now I think I’m one of those fake farmers. I’ve got four and a half acres at Murrumbateman. But I must say when I was at AgQuip earlier in the week at Gunnedah, probably the site itself, the largest agricultural fieldays, is probably bigger than my place in its entirety. It was interesting talking to the rural community, the farmers, graziers, those involved in agriculture out at Gunnedah hearing about what’s on their mind and what they’re thinking about the future.

Jac Underwood

Yeah, well we do things the best out here in the bush, but I’m probably biased. Now Australia’s small business owners are rapidly getting older. Some new research. So how are you looking at this?

Bruce Billson

I’m very fortunate to have a fantastic data analytics team here at the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman’s office, and we felt something was going on and we thought let’s have a let’s have a look at the evidence. And what we found was in the mid-70s there was about 17% of small and family business owners under 30. Well that’s, that’s 8% now and that’s really quite a change. We’re also seeing the most common age for a business owner being, frankly, around 50.

In fact, in Bathurst, it’s a it’s a little bit above that. It’s 51 and you have only 7% of your business owners aged under 30. And when you look at the statistics behind that, and we were just talking about agriculture, 4% of business owners are under 30 in agriculture.

We’re thinking, well, what’s the next gen of enterprising men and women going to look like? Where are they coming from? Why is it that young people might not be imagining themselves to be business owners and leaders? Is the big responsibility of owning and running a business maybe too daunting for some?

Or have we not told the story about the joy that can come from shaping your own destiny, creating opportunities for yourselves and others and for many, living a real life of purpose through their business, that meets other objectives they have for their lives. That’s what we’re trying to unpick, Jac, what’s going on here? But we know it can’t be great if we’re not seeing a wave of new enterprising men and women doing what they do.

Jac Underwood

If you talk about the great Australian dream, right, you think about being able to buy your own house. And if you want to set up your own enterprise and be your own boss and perhaps that’s outdated now and more of a 1970s dream?

Bruce Billson

Look, I think there’s something going on. I think it’s also a reflection – and this is this is not something we’ve been able to prove but perhaps a thesis – that during recent times where we’ve had quite full employment, we’ve had skill shortages in many, many areas and you and I have talked about that before and the impact that so on the regions. Maybe there’s been some juicy incomes available working for someone else and maybe valuing the flexibility to be able to go and travel and pursue other life’s objectives. You and I know and your listeners know that if you’re the business owner and you can’t fill a shift, who tends to fill it? If you haven’t got help on the property and the cows need milking, guess where the owners are.

Some of the data we released recently showed that about 43% of businesses aren’t making a profit in these challenging times, but also about two-thirds aren’t taking home the average wage either. So there’s other things going on there and we’re just keen to really push off from this research and then ask the question what are the hesitations? Is it is it is the risk reward equation not as attractive as it should be? Or is it that for many people there’s just so many other delicious possibilities?

Jac Underwood

Maybe there’s too much red tape. The insurance landscape’s changing, and many other things are changing. Costs are going up, rents are going up.

Bruce Billson

Oh, you’re teasing me here because, you know, I think there’s a lot in that. The phrase I use is maybe there’s too many headwinds and not enough wind in the sails. And you’ve just touched on a couple of those things there. The big responsibility involves compliance obligations, reporting to the Tax Office, your employer obligations, and talk about the regulators coming down hard on people that aren’t doing the right thing. Maybe that just spooks people.

And then there’s another part of the story, Jac. There’s 1.5 million Australians that are self-employed. They’ve chosen not to employ some others, but they are self-employed and making their own opportunities and there’s actually more mature age people who are self-employed than are actually employed by somebody else. And there could be a whole story around why that might be. Maybe ageism in recruitment, who knows? But there’s a few moving parts there.

What we know is if we want to create the wealth and opportunity for the future, we need enterprising men and women driving growth, driving economic investment and innovation and driving those livelihood opportunities. And if we’re not replacing our aging business owners and those aging business owners aren’t able to, with confidence, look to the business community and think, well, someone will want to buy my business, I’ll be able to profit and benefit from my dedicated decade or two of work in building up this business, then we start having a little bit of a handbrake on our future possibilities and that’s why I’m very interested in it.

Jac Underwood

How well placed are you to effect some change here? Does the Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman have any teeth Bruce?

Bruce Billson

Oh look, it’s got some teeth, but whether it’s more of a gumming or a bite is for others to decide. It is set up as an independent statutory position. So I’m actually a public office holder, so I can speak frankly and hopefully with some courage, but also with clarity and credibility about what policy initiatives government might consider, where programs might not be landing well, or to use the platform my role provides to get on some of the nation’s leading radio programs with mega audiences, including Jac Underwood’s program on 2BS.

They’re the sorts of things that we try and do. We try and build partnerships, a consensus around what could happen, what would improve things, do the legwork to identify the policy options, and then try and bring the evidence together and hope we’re persuasive to government, to ministers, to policymakers. And that’s our mission.

Jac Underwood

Well, it certainly is always a delight to have you on the program. Thank you for joining us.

Bruce Billson

Great to be with you, Jac. And best wishes to your listeners.